AI AT/ATGM problems
Open, HighPublic


Hey CUP team, two issues I noticed with latest CUP and CBA.
AI Hinds can't use their ATGM. In the vid I uploaded the Hind is armed with only Ataka and Shturm, radar on and full unit skill. If I set the pilot as playable and I'm taking control Shturm works very well, but Ataka acts like an unguided missile.

In the next two videos I noticed BMP2, BRDM2 ATGM and BTR-90 aren't using their AT on different armored targets. BTR-90 also seemed to use it's 30mm cannon a bit random.

Krycek created this task.Nov 14 2017, 4:17 PM

Update with more choppers and jets, test conditions: cannon ammo removed not to ruin the test, full unit skill for both pilot and gunner, emission control active for all units.

Ka-50 and Ka-52 won't use their AT guided missiles, for Ka-52 switching weapons control to either pilot or gunner has the same result. Also not in video but I want to mention the Ka-50 pilot won't use his S8 missiles while the Ka-52 pilot will use them.

Ka-60 Kasatka gunner won't use the guided or unguided missiles. Switching weapon control to the pilot he will use the unguided ones, but not the guided AT. Not in video but I also tested the MH-60 DAP and it's using both the unguided and guided missiles.

Hind won't use the guided missiles (pilot or gunner weapon control). Not in video, but interestingly the pilot won't use the S8 or S5 missiles while switching the unguided missiles to the gunner will make the Hind use them.

UH-1Y Venom Gunship, a bit farther from the targets will use it's Hydra missiles but fires them God knows where, moving the chopper a bit closer and it will engage the BTR-90 but not returning for a second attack run on the T-90(stays there like a sitting duck).

Su-25 seems to use BI munitions but can't use Sharur on the APC. Su-34 can't use it's KH-29L missiles or the BI Sharur.

Harrier, A-10 and F-35 have the same issues with their AGM 65 and AGM 114K:

I didn't had enough time to test the jets if they work in dogfighting but the Su-34 and F-35 seems to use their AA missiles just fine.

Krycek added a comment.EditedMay 25 2018, 4:25 PM

Hey guys just a small update. The Hinds have the same issues, no idea about the jets or the rest of the choppers I tested before, didn't had time to test yet.
The good news is that the BMP2, BRDM2-ATGM and BTR-90 are fixed. All the apcs used their missiles.

Edit: Added some details about what's fixed and what's still bugged.

Repeated the rest of the tests:

Ka-50- will use it's cannon and unguided missiles, still no engaging with guided ones like Vikhr or Ataka

Ka-52- won't leave it's position, won't use guided ones. Engages randomly with the unguided ones like S8 &S5 but not leaving its position and engaging basically fires far from the target

Ka-60 Kasatka(missiles)- will use the unguided missiles and engaging

UH-1Y Gunship- same bug as Ka-52, won't leave its position but randomly fires the unguided munitions too far away

Su-25 & Su-34- can't use the guided missiles like Sharur or KH-29

Av-8 Harrier- it just flies in wide circles around target without using guided munitions

A-10 & F-35- seems fixed, they used their AGM65

About AGM 114K, seems to be used only by rotary and unmanned but AI is never using it, no matter if it's on Apache or the Reaper drone, the 114L version still works great.

Hey CUP team,amazing work on the last update. I redid the tests and this is what I noticed regarding AI gunships,jets and guided AT missiles.
The test was made in the same conditions as before, desert map, full AI for pilots&gunners,active emissions on, no ammo for cannons, targets were stationary or moving armored vehicles with forced hold fire.

Ka-50 & Ka-52: can't use Vikhr or Ataka missiles, they're basically useless as AI guided AT support right now.

Hind D/P/V versions can't use Ataka missiles but now are capable using Falanga and Shturm quite good. If the armored vehicle is stationary Hind will be more efficient, if target is moving around it will need a few passes but that could be just BI AI. So Falanga & Shturm good, Ataka bad. :))

MI-35 this one is weird, using Ataka on all it's pylons won't use them just like the other Hinds, adding Falanga on a single pylon and the rest full with Ataka it will use them too. I noticed it's quite bad with Ataka, when it used them they were acting more like unguided missiles.

SU-25 & SU-34: Mixed bag, I would still consider them bugged. With BI Sahrur it will fly in circles a few times but sometimes they fire them. From 4 tests with each jet 2-3 tests they flew around without engaging.
With the Kh-29L missiles they keep flying in circles without engaging.

Everything else I reported in the May 26 test it's fixed now.

Chairborne triaged this task as High priority.
Krycek added a comment.EditedApr 8 2019, 4:58 PM

Ok, redid the tests with 1.12.0,and also made some new vids with my tests:

Su-25 with Kh-29L(or BIS Sharur) is a bit better, it's actually usable in field unlike Su-34.
Su-34 still buggy with Kh-29L, perhaps broken flight model instead of missile problem.
Mi-24 with Shturm works but buggy, sometimes takes a few passes when it has direct los and could engage on second pass.
Vikhr and Ataka no change, AI won't use them so Superhinds or Ka-52\Ka-50 aren't usable for AI guided AT roles.

No change with russian missiles in 1.13.0. AI won't use Ataka,Vikhr,Falanga. AI Su-34 also doesn't use any guided missiles like the BI KH-29.
The usability of Shturm that worked before is also reduced to zero due to my testing. I tested the missiles with no other loadout and no cannon ammo.

For example on a MI-24D with 30mm cannon ammo, S5 rocket pods and Shturm the AI will use only S5 and it's cannon.

Freddo3000 changed the status of subtask T3537: T-90 AT-11 Missiles lose trayectory after 1k of distance from Needs Review to Acknowledged.Jan 3 2020, 2:54 PM
Freddo3000 changed the task status from Needs Review to Open.Mar 10 2020, 8:11 PM

Had time today so I redid the tests:

Good news:
Hinds are using Ataka and Shturm together with their other weapons like S5-S8 loadouts, it's quite a beautiful orchestra of death now.

Bad news:
Ka-50 is prioritizing S5 or S8 loadouts and only when it will run out of those it will use Vikhr.

SU-34 still ain't using guided missiles.

Ka-52 is broken...I'm not sure what is it doing as you can see in the video:

i didnt test ka50s after the revamp, probably either some AI routine (which we cant fix) or some cost calculation (which probably cannot be overridden without breaking balance somewhere else).

Kh29L are laser homing, you need to designate a target with the laser designator, not sure if the AI can handle this.

the ka52 issue is probably related as to how you spawned the AI/vehicle, the autocannon should not be used by the AI as its technically a separate turret.

Ka-52 does that weird flying everytime, I'm not sure what you mean about spawning. I simply added it in 3den either empty with CDF pilots after choosing the loadout for it or with the default russian pilots with a seek&destroy wp.
Either way it for me it does that weird flying pattern and doesn't engage anything like in the video, it used it's cannon only in the vid for those few seconds, I tested it 3 times and only that time it fired it's autocannon.

Regarding Kh29 and Su-34 could it be there's something wrong with the jet instead of the missile? Because I also added only a Sharur loadout which is IR to it and it still doesn't engage anything and makes very large detours on the map unlike Blufor jets (I even set view distance to max).

Regarding Ka50s now I have no clue about configs but couldn't this gunship be set up like Hinds now where they use their entire loadout?

the cannon shouldnt be accessible without scripting as its technically a separate weapon station from the one used to handle missiles. do vanilla helicopters with similar loadouts behave differently?

the kh29 uses a different type of guidance, it requires you to paint a target with the laser designator mounted on the plane, or alternatively designate from the ground. this is how the missile works irl too. we'll look into the flight model sometime in the future maybe.

hinds are twin seaters, ka50s are single seaters, the vikhr missiles are manually guided from the pilot camera on the black shark, not sure the AI is able to handle it. i can tell you with absolute certainty that it does work as intended when controlled by the player tho.

Hey Chairborne, yeah in my game AI uses the cannon with guided&unguided missile loadouts with Hinds, vanilla choppers or CUP Blufor ones like AH-64, AH-1Z. Not with Ka-52, just extremely rare and randomly like 2 times in 8 repeats.

Speaking of Ka-52, had a run with them again today on Stratis and this time the AI piloting them behaved normal, not that weird flying pattern like a couple of days ago and it also engaged an BMP2 as test (still with S8s like Ka-50s instead of Vikhrs).

I also gave the Hinds a spin today and noticed them prioritizing unguided missiles just like Ka-50s unlike couple of days ago. I never change conditions on my tests, only the terrain but at this stage I believe it's the BI AI fuckery.

These are the tests I did record today, regarding Su-34 two times I even deleted the vids because it crashed into the hills, that's BI AI for us. Still the long detours are at least a constant in regards to it. No change with the Kh29 perhaps it's like you said and they need to be lased by a player because the AI can't. After this I switched the loadout to Sharur and after a few repeats AI used one of them but only once, sadly didn't record it.